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Wednesday, February 4, 2009

Such deep thoughts....

Well, I have another thought for y'all. I am in a class called "A Biblical World View" and in that class we discuss how we get a Biblical world view. In the class, we recently talked about a intersting subject that I wanted to get your guys thoughts on. Lets say for example, you are a Christian and live in Germany during WW2 and you are hiding Jews in your house. The S.S. comes and demands that you tell them where the Jews are. Do you lie, and say you have no Jews in your house, or do you say i am not going to tell you and leave the rest up to God?

Now some people say that if you lied to the S.S. agent, you are still obeying God because the Bible says you should obey God's law rather than man's. On the other side, some people say that you should have faith in God and leave it up to him what happens and not lie. Now, I have looked this subject up in my Bible and here's what I found.

In my MacArthur Study Bible, it says in Acts 5:29 " But Peter and the other apostles answered(to the high priest) and said, We aught to obey God rather than men". So I looked at the side note for this verse and it said look at the notes for Acts 4:19. So I did, and here's what the verse said " But Peter and John answered and said to them, "Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you more than to God, you Judge". I looked at the side notes (and i tend to think MacArthur knows what he is talking about) for that verse and it says " Christians should obey governmental authority, but when government decrees are clearly contrary to God's word, God must be obeyed''.

Now the Bible also says in numerous places that you should have faith in God and trust in him for all things, for example Mark 11:2o-24, Psalm 31:23, and numerous other places.

Now I personally think it would be okay to lie to the S.S. because I think we can all agree that Germany's government was in the wrong with the killing of the Jews who had done nothing wrong, and clearly went against what God says. Even though we can only speculate about what we would do in that circumstance, we can only hope we would all make the right choice.

23 comments:

MennoGirl said...

I think (notice think, not know) that you are on the right track here. You wouldn't have to say 'yeah, I've got lots of Jews," but just leave it to God. He can blind the eyes of who He wills, if He wills.

Muse Of Randomness said...

Weeell... I would lie. I would rather lie than have anyone killed or tortured because of me. But since I wasn't around or anything during WW2, no one really knows.

Since such murder and all is against what God wants, it does seem okay to lie, because you're preventing needless death.

(Don't mind me if I pretty much just restated what I said in the first paragraph. My brain was eaten last night.)

Bootlace said...

I guess you follow what you believe what God whats you to do. And if they ask you if you are hiding jews in your house you can hoenstly say no, beacause if you were a Christion wouldn't it be God's house?

RogerMan said...

I would lie, cuz gremany's government at the time(and maybe a little now too) was totally going against what God has said......then i would blow the S.S. agent's head off

Aaron said...

Interesting... this reminds me of something the teacher said in our class! Plagiarism!

RogerMan said...

be Quiet!!!

MennoGirl said...

Well, blowing the S.S. man's head off would make you a murderer too. Sorry

Asisca G. Rewan said...

I have had many conversations. On subjects similar to this. I don't think I would say anything. God is bigger than men. He can blind people's eyes. Yes, you have the example of Rahab in the Bible. But also she wasn't a believer, and I believe God would have made a way for the spies if she had told the truth. The fact is lying is nothing lying. And God says that's wrong.

RogerMan said...

AAAAAAAAAAAHHH

Asisca G. Rewan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
RogerMan said...

nothing really...cassia

Asisca G. Rewan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
RogerMan said...

you. Cassia wagner

His Handmaidens said...

There are clever ways of telling the truth that do not reveal it to unnessecary personal. Sometimes to tell the truth would be better. They are not expecting to hear it.

There is a story of Bestey Ten Boom doing exactly that. The officers laughed and left. I say use your wits and you might be able to avoid lying and murder. Don't give the enemy cause for offense, and you won't have to worry about them.

Great discussion topic Josh.

Caitlin

RogerMan said...

How many Handmaidens are there?!?!?

Aaron said...

Deleted comments? hmmm

MennoGirl said...

We all do things we regret.

Anna B said...

oh that was deep Josh. LOL
i would lie, think of Corrie Ten Boom she lied to the S.S. didn't she. She made it through the war alive am i wrong.

Anna B said...

I must recant what I said. I do not believe that if we as Christinas were in a situation like that of Corrie Ten Boom then we would just have to say what business is it of yours or what if I do. The lord has us in his hand and if it is our time to go then we must do it most honorably without lying.

Anna B said...

sorry i said that wrong I do belive that if we were in a situation that we should not lie we should just tell them the truth

Trevor Barton said...

This was an interesting conversation topic in that class.

First off, I think we need to detach ourselves from any preconceived notions on the "corruptness and evilness" of the German government at that time. It was, of course evil when compared to the biblical truths we have. But to call the German people as a whole evil is wrong. Some officers in the German military were secretly Jews themselves. This could flow into a whole other debate, but, let's stay on track (haha).

Jesus clearly repeats throughout the entire latter half of John that whatever we pray for according to God's will and through his name, we WILL receive.
If we pray for his protection (to protect the Jews under the table while we're approaching the door) give me one good reason He would not listen.

And as you've already noted, being truthful is one of the biggest themes of the Bible. It is an over arching absolute that God created that everyone should strive to live by. It is, after all, one of the commandments (same with not murdering, Rogerman, including shooting an SS Agent haha). Therefore, I think that being truthful should be the thing that we should try to grasp for in any situation. And believe me, it's hard. Especially if you were confronted by a situation like the one above.

If we really follow Christ, why should we have fear? Why should we try to bend the rules according to our twisted world view?

I think the vital thing here is to raise our view from, as I said before, our view of the world, into God's world view.

Lying is a sin, and therefore needs to be avoided, less we go down the same path as Satan.
God will always reward those who are truthful, patient and kind. The opposite can be said about those who don't follow God's absolutes.

Always, always remember "what would Jesus do?" (I know, it's old and corny, but it is TRUE).

Would Jesus lie?

Would Jesus kill? He had every reason to, but he didn't. Because his strength was in humbleness and he conquered the world. He was silent when everyone was beating him up and cursing Him.
I pray for strength like that.

Anyways, that's my two cents worth.

Hope this helps.

Aaron said...

jeez, Trevor, you should write an essay on that. haha

RogerMan said...

two cents???? that was more like a quarter..